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tv   Geraldo at Large  FOX News  July 20, 2014 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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this is a fox news alert. i'm geraldo rivera reporting. unholy war rages in the holy land. and the death toll mounts. as israel attacks gaza. to crush palestinian militants. [ bleep ]. >> whoa, whoa whoa. >> it cannot be justified. it is not -- it is a individualful military aggression. >> we're using missile defense
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to protect our civilian and they are using civilians to protect their missiles. that's difference. >> tonight we're live in gaza. and up front, murder in the ukraine sky. >> you just hope that none of the children are the grandchildren will go before you. and now it has happened. >> minutes after 298 men, women, and children, and babies are killed, our intelligence tracked to a near certainty the russian supplied surface to air missile that took that airliner down. but who pulled the trigger? the rag tag rebels or the russians leading their fight. >> a group of separatists can't shoot down a military transport plane or fighter jets without sophisticated training or equipment. that's coming from russia. >> the president is right but
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he's too cool for school. here's what he could have said. >> i believe that vladimir putin has the blood of these passengers on his hands. >> what should president obama do now? >> he kept saying there ought to be a real investigation. well he's the president of the strongest country on earth. why is not not organizing something happening? >> as investigators gain access to the crash site. we report from eastern ukraine near the scene of the crime. first of all, steve, straighten out any confusion, have the investigators indeed got on the the scene? is the scene secure? >> the investigators have made it to the scene. there are representatives from the osce, european experts a it the scene but they are not getting proper access. more and more international experts are arriving to the
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capital of kiev but getting down to eastern ukraine while a war is going on is a challenge. each side has checkpoints and the closer you get to the crash site the more you hear guns. no environment for any independent investigation exists. >> how far are you from the crash site right now? i see street lights and traffic behind you. is there more normalcy in eastern ukraine than we're led to believe? >> we're in a rebel-controlled majorsy of donetsk. ordinarily a city with a population of a million. but it feels like a ghost town. many people who have the means have left. it's foreboding that there could be more violence and fighting ahead. a lot of ukrainians voting with their feet and getting out of town. >> what about the investigation,
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the forensic inspection of that site, of that scene? do you hear anything about any progress or is the scene indeed polluted? >> it is polluted and it's challenging because it's in a war zone and spread out over essential scare miles. but several world leaders have expressed outrage at the slow pace and pointing the finger at russia. t the netherlands prime minister saying that vladimir putin has one more chance to get things right here. >> describe the roadblocks. who operates the checkpoints. >> it feels even though you are in ukraine that you're going from one country to another. this is the people's republic of donetsk where i'm standing. you need a different accreditation to do work on the ground here. the ukrainian side checkpoints are organized and civils but there are group on the other
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side, competing factions in the pro-russian militia. >> will the war escalate from here in eastern ukraine or will there be a lull as they clean up the remains of the mass murder. >> you have to hope for the victims families they have to get the bodies out of here in a dig fied fashion. i think putin has his hand on one leg of the stool in ukraine and he can make things difficult for that young fledgling government in kiev. >> will russian president putin back down or double down in the ukraine? up next, sick of being part of the propaganda machine, a russian tv
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personally i cannot be a part of a network funded by the russian government that whitewashes the action of putin. i'm proud to be an american and believe in disseminating the truth and that is why after this newscast, i'm resigning. sick that she was being used as part of the propaganda machine, the russian borne anchor liz wahl dramatically resigning on the air back in march. she joins us live. >> hello. >> i'm curious what you expected when you went to work for russia's state-owned cable channel? >> i was hired as reporter. at the time when they hired me they said it was an opportunity to cover important stories that the main street media ignores.
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and russia wasn't making waves at the time. of course i had some misgivings about working there. but i certainly -- perhaps i was a bit naive. and it's not a -- it's not like that at all times but when it comes to important and sensitive situations, where russia is involved politically that's where it really does cross the line into propaganda. >> take me through it from march on. what was it about the invasion the seizure of crimea that triggered it? >> well, i'd been having issues there. i mean, i had some -- sometimes i just didn't feel good about the angles that they were pushing especially when it came to dictators, regimes, russia's allies. that's when i started to feel a little bit uncomfortable. but when ukraine happened i felt that it was a turning point. it was a turning point for me and i felt that the station was
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taking on a propaganda role in an unprecedented way. we went heavy on ukraine and the way that we covered the conflict was always made ukraine out to be the hostile party and made ukraine out to be the bad guy. at this point, i mean, the facts were twisted so much to the point that they became lies. >> they being fwtwisted now eve worse now that you have the word on the malaysian airliner. what is your reaction and rt is saying that it was the ukrainian government or that the separatists could never have done it and trying to absolve themselves of all blame. i don't know to this minute whether president putin has specifically denied it. but certainly, it is by all appearances, russia is trying to distance themselves from any
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responsibility. what is your response? >> it's offensive and despicable. when i heard the news of this happening i was wondering how russian television was going to spin it. of course not too much time passed by where i saw that -- i mean, they were making claims that were baseless and unsubstantiated and into the realm of conspiracy theory. one way they covered it was they pinned the blame on the ukrainian government and they were aiming for a plane that -- the president vladimir putin was flying in. and that to me it's a new low. and i think that -- >> you went too fast there. you are saying that what the russians are saying that the ukraine government was aiming at a plane that president putin was flying in and hit the malaysian airliner by mistake. is that even remotely fathemable? >> it's ludicrous. and that's why -- that's why
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propaganda i think can be dangerous. because this is -- you have to think in russia this is what people are hearing. this is what people are seeing. and their access to the media is controlled. so i mean, this is what people there believe. they believe that some of them because they are listening to the media, believe it was the ukrainian government targeting a jet that the president was flying in. and i think it's dangerous because i mean, this is what they're hearing and that's why you see, in russia there is very strong large portion of the population is in favor of going to war with ukraine and you can't blame them. this is the media they're taking in. there is an information war going on. and it's important to get the truth out as much as we can. >> do you worry that the kgb will follow you? that something awful like a movie or book? or are you worried?
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>> certainly my family was worried about me and my friends were warryed about me. i won't be traveling to russia or eastern ukraine any time soon. but i'm here on u.s. soil. >> what does your future hold? >> i'm working on something right now. i can't talk about it. you'll have to wait and see. >> well, liz wahl i appreciate you coming on. hopefully you will now check the russian president. i appreciate you coming on. thank you. >> thank you. >> up next, what was putin's role? he didn't personally pull the trigger, obviously that launched the missile that took down the ill-fated civilian aircraft. but does he have blood on his hands? as i
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we are just shot down a plane. that was miner's group. it fell down outside -- >> pilots, where are the pilots? >> they're off to search for the shot down plane and take pictures of it. a plume of smoke is visible. >> how many minutes ago? >> about 30 minutes ago. >> that surface to air missile had to come from russia. the training provided to operate that surface to air missile system most likely came from russia. >> deeply concerned that the crash site has not been properly secured. the integrity of the site has been compromised and there are indication that vital evidence
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has not been preserved. >> in our hyper wired world maybe we should not be surprised by the quality of forensic evidence available, surveillance tapes and so forth all pointing the finger of blame directly in russia's direction after the civilian airliner was shot down. craig now invests the forensics of the crash. >> reporter: the miner group has just shot down an airplane. >> item thursday, ukraine intelligence releases phone calls claiming to connect a commander and kblejs official to the crime. >> we just shot down a plane, that was miner's group. it fell down outside -- >> is there any type of weapon is this. >> absolutely nothing. there are civilian things, medical craps and lavatory paper. >> they wanted to bring spies to us. ask them. they should not fly. we are at war here.
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>> there is no doubt in my mind, russian special operations forces who have been on the ground advising these guys first the past year trained these guys. >> as proof emerges that russian supplied missiles brought down mh17 over eastern ukraine the question remains did russian soldiers pull the trigger? >> you is to get a hold of the people who manned that battery and get them into a place where they can be interrogated at great lengths. >> marine pilot and crash investigator justin green, now an aviation attorney says at the very least russia trained the trigger men. >> if you found a system on the street this is not something you can get in and use. it requires special and specific training and the only place you find people who are able to train, operators are the military. now the russian military is probably the chief target to look for the trainers.
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>> you're saying that these separatists couldn't just jump into this thing and press a trigger and make that rocket launch and hit that airliner? >> this is a very sophisticated system and unless the rebels had people with the training in this particular system then someone has to come in and help them use it. and that's where the investigation should focus. who came in? who helped them? where did they get their expertise from? >> and that deadly expertise is necessary, item, the training manual for the s.a. 11 system. >> two years of training to be a noncommissioned officer operating that system on the buk missile system with an sa 11 or 20 more training. this is years of training. >> item getting rid of the murder weapon. officials released a video of an sa 1 is leaving a missile leaving the scene of the crime.
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proof, ukraine says that the rebels and their russian bosses are tieing to cover up their guilt. >> putin's fingerprints are all over it whether he ordered it but he put it in hands of people who he knew were no not stable and we have a tremendous loss of human life. >> the evidence is going to be really on the ground in rebel hands. the weapons system that was used to knock it down and then the people. my question is where are the people that did this horrible, horrible deed. >> and where there's smoke, there's fire. >> it's strange to think that it could be used by separatists without at least some measure of russian support and technical assistance. >> pentagon officials say thousands of russian troops are massed along the ukraine border along with armored vehicles, rocket launchers and artillery that is ready to ship to the rebels. >> what about the idea that this could have been shooting at a
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target and missing that target and the errant rocket goes off and hits that commercial airline? >> it's virtually impossible the system locks on the ground. mistakes were made on the ground. and no one has said there is another military aircraft in the area. >> the rebels took down a military aircraft earlier in the week killing 49 service members on board. the cargo plane was shut down by a surface to air missile like the one used to down mh17. >> the people on the ground purposefully shot down this airplane. they may have been mistaken whether it was civilian, but it was intentional. >> to protect civilian aircraft the eastern half of the country has now been declared a no-fly zone. tragically that order was not given until after russia's sophisticated military hardware
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was used to commit mass murder in the skies over the ukraine. >> thanks. so now let's get to the nitty gritty, the specific specific evidence in u.s. hands pointing the finger directly at russian operators indicating this russian colonel one of the leads over the uprising in eastern ukws is on the story. >> first of all, u.s. officials now believe they have pinpointed the launch site for the missile that brought down the plane inside ukraine on the border with russia. they believe the sa 11 buk missile was brought in the last several weeks. u.s. officials now believe the launcher is likely back across the border in russia. further u.s. will intelligence
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analysts now think that this man who is leading the separatist group he is overheard talking to another officer in phone intercepts. u.s. officials say they are conducting voice recognition and believe the audio to be authentic. as one source put it to me, we are building a case and it's pretty near bullet proof at this point. >> i only wonder is it too bullet proof? like the intercepted phone conversations coming in in stereo, so convenient and powerful and damning. i have no reason to doubt it other than it seem too good to be true. >> it's a pretty clear picture we're getting but this is a part of the world for four months all u.s. satellites have been trained there, signals, intelligence and the ukrainians.
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they were trained by the kgb. and the russians are not pulling their ten to 12,000 troops back from the border. they are not showing any remorse and not looking cooperative. if you look at that evidence alone it's very clear they are trying to hide something. >> did -- pull the trigger or one of the separatists? >> the backdrop is that on monday the rebels and the russians brought down an ukraine cargo plane and they were proud about that. they were feeling good about that. and i think that nobody in the u.s. intelligent community thinks they knew it was a civilian plane and they brought it down intelligenntionally. whether the russians or the ukraine thug allies that shot down the plane does not matter.
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the killers were reckless. they were ruthless and they have the blood of the 298 innocent passengers on their hands. coming orts.
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what's your role? what role do you play here? >> i'm an intercepter. i am directly involved with the interception of rockets that threaten civilian life. >> do you ever get the sense that there this is a never-ending war? >> i have hope. and i want to believe. that eventually it will end. and i hope it will end soon. >> when you hear criticism of israel how do you respond when you are back in the states? >> well, a lot of it is based on ignorance. we are constantly defending from rockets shot at us and they are constantly being shot at us. and i'm defending innocent civilians.
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so i feel -- i feel very can. in what i'm doing and morally i feel very confident in what i'm doing. >> by doing our job specifically, that we are not only preventing civilian death but future conflict. >> this is a fox news alert. that was the last time i was with the iron dome operators in israel. now for the first time since the fighting this round, two israeli soldiers have been killed inside israel. by palestinian infiltrators using one of the tunnels that the current israeli offensive is designed to destroy. for the first time in this country round of fighting an israeli civilian has been killed by a rocket fired from gaza. but there is no way to avoid the fact that is it the palestinians who are suffering disproportionately. more than 350 have been killed this round. among the dead in recent fighting, eight members of a palestinian family including
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four children killed by an israeli artillery barrage on friday night. from the fighting now from the scene of the fight, our correspondent john huddy is on the front line. doing been doing a great job, john. now as light comes to the region, tell us what the action is. >> yeah, and by the way, geraldo in terms of the death toll, 350 palesti palestinians, more than 1400 have been injured. the death toll continues to rise. it's a fluid situation and it's really hard to just keep that number at one specific number because it just continues to go up. in terms of the here and now, it is dawn. this morning we've seen action and heard action. i'm looking over my shoulder to the north. we've seen air strikes and heard cannon fire from off shore as
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the ground offensive continues. israeli troops moving in from the north and east rooting out the opportunities that hamas has been using to get into israel. two militants were killed using israeli -- they were dressed in israeli military outfits and a third was also killed and he had tranquilizers and handcuffs on imindicating he was trying to abduct some israelis. we are getting reports that another two israeli soldiers have been killed this morning in the fighting. we also along with that got a report from the idf that the operation -- the ground operation now in its third day is being expand. 18,000 troops were pulled up to be added to the troops already on the ground. there are be an enhanced operation -- hold on one second. we heard something behind us. what that means i don't know if that means they are going to
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push in from the south as well. but what is clear that the fighting does continue. third day of the ground offensive. 13 days total of operation protective edge. >> describe where you are standing right now. >> we are along the coast. we're in west gaza. west of gaza city. and just to give you an idea, north of us in the distance. i don't know if you can see the lights in the distance, that's israel. i can't tell you in terms of mileage. i'm not sure. that's looking north. we've seen a lot of artillery fire coming from off shore hitting locations along the northern coastal line here. there have been a lot of air strikes in and around our location and to the north and east. that's where we've seen a heavy amount of fire fight. we've seen a lot of air strikes. it's been quiet for now. this morning that could change quickly. but at our location here there's been a ton of air strikes,
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particularly yesterday. i've never seen -- since we've been here, the frequency has never been as high as yesterday. so close that shrapnel blew out windows in the building that we're in. in fact there was an air strike just across the way. we're in the northern, western part of gaza and this is where a lot of action has been. >> john, i appreciate it. thank you very much. a former deputy defense minister joins us live from tel aviv. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> there have been demonstrations now. in the islamic world you expect it. but also here in denver, can israel accomplish its objectives before the inevitable pressure from world opinion alters this course? >> i respect world opinion and
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public opinion. but i respect more the need or rights of my daughter to sleep soundly at night. today in israel two thirds of the population is under threat of missile every day in the last ten days we face the danger of missiles. i care about it but i care more about our security. it's a double standard when i see the protesters in london, uk yesterday i asked myself what would have happened in london if they would have seen missiles in london on a daily basis. we will do whatever is necessary to protect our people. we do our best that there will be no civilians hurt in this conflict. unlike hamas who is playing what double crime using the civilians to protect its missiles. and i hope we do not see more civilian casualties but we expect more rallies and demonstrations. unfortunately, we are used to it. >> these are live pictures from
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gaza, flares from the israeli military marking the spot. artillery air strikes sure to follow. what do you want president obama to do? you tell us. what can america do to restore calm here? >> i think we expect from our friends and allies in the u.s. for unconditional support. only to stop the operation today it's not the stop the operation. when you need to fight, you fight them. you don't play a game with them. i think we need to support to allow us to continue to do whatever is necessary. >> but you mention your daughter and you know i love israel. i'm a zionist through and through. 450 of the dead are children. at what point does enough become enough? >> we have to make sure that hamas understands we cannot accept the reality of living under threat.
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last week i opposed the premature ceasefire and i said you cannot stop it now when they have hundreds of troubunnels an they are using the tunnels to attack jewish communities in israel. and i think we have to do what is right. and for the city of gaza, for the daughters and boys who live today in gaza it would be better that hamas not be there. >> i agree with that. from your lips to god's ears. i have to let it go. we are out of time. we'll be right back, ladies and gentlemen. what should our president do? the former head of
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russia's president putin is an arrogant tough guy and has a lot of explaining to do if he doesn't want russia to be an economic pariah. but what should our president
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do? james woolsy was director of central intelligent. pete hookstra traces his lineage to holland. director, you first. what does president obama do? >> i think he's got to get after russia and iran on your other major story by making it very difficult for them to sell oil. we have to make adjustments to our cars to make it possible for them to drive on other fuels. the one that is most interesting is methanol, or wood alcohol. once you can drive on something that is two-thirds a price per mile of gasoline, russia starts to need to get along with its
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neighbors and us. and in time, maybe even iran. both of those countries really need expensive oil. and we can take that away from them. >> that's great advice. no doubt. i wonder if it will happen any time soon. but let me get back to you on that. because of the human toll here, you know, folks at least 193 of the 298 passengers on board that lost mh17 are dutch. proportionately they suffered far worse or about somewhat worse than the united states did in 9/11, proportionately. and i wonder, congressman, with your dutch background, how pains are the folks in the netherlands, they have not been stern about russia and sanctions. will this affect that?
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tell us how you are feeling. condolences to you and your compatriots there. describe from the a dutch/american point of view. >> i mean it was a huge toll. i visited my roots with my kids and my wife two weeks ago in the netherlands, visited my birthplace where my parents grew up. but it's more than those connections. the dutch were standing shoulder to shoulder where the 13 colonies going through the formative stages of becoming the united states of america. they have stood next to us ever since continually. they are our closest and longest friends. this is a huge toll on the dutch. they are a close with-knit integrated country. they have been fighting the oceans for, you know, hundreds of years. they're going through a very, very difficult time now. our hearts, our prayers go out the our friends in the
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netherlands and the other countries and families that were so deeply affected by what happened on thursday. what the u.s. needs to do, we need to exert and use this moment to clearly define who the enemy is. as you said on friday, putin has blood on his hands. he is a murderous leader of one of the most heavily armed countries in the world. we need to identify iran, hamas, the ukrainian rebels in russia for exactly who they are and hold them accountable. >> as former chairman of house intelligence i want to ask you and director woolssy the same question. how confident are you that our intelligence has this nailed the russians did this or their surrogates, who pulled the trigger is irrelevant, i feel. >> who pulled the trigger is irrelevant. we know that the russians provided these missiles to the
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ukrainians. they gave them to an undisciplined and unsophisticated group of folks. who pushed the button, we don't know. but they don't care whether it was civilian casualties or not. the russians are accountable. our intelligence agencies have nailed this. they know that it was the russians or russian surrogates that did this. i have no doubt at this point. >> director woolsy do you think it is laughable the claims that they were trying to shoot down putin and it was an accident and all the rest of it? >> i think it was nonsense. i think this is about as clear as intelligence ever gets. -- who was on your show a number of times, died a few months ago said on more than one occasion that president obama is a
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constitutional scholar adrift in a world of thugs. and that's the problem. the problem is that the president needs to zero in on putin and on, i think, the iranians with respect to what's going on with hamas's attacks in israel. and hold people's feet to the fire. when we behave as we did as a government in letting them off the hook in syria. in the way we have dealt with ukraine pretty much most of the way, we look weak. and putin doesn't respect anybody who is weak. he laughs. >> and yet, congress hoekstra, it is putin's near abroad just like something happening over the canadian border. ukraine does border russia. i mean, he has interests.
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>> oh, absolutely, he has interested. but he has crossed a number of red lines that the international community should have held him accountable for. he should never have been able to introduce the strong russian influence into the rebels in ukraine. and introducing these kinds of sophisticated weapons into this environment crosses a huge red line and we saw what the consequences were whether, you know, the shoot down was intentional or whether it was accidental, these kinds of weapons should never have made into the that type of environment. >> i have to leave it there, gentlemen. >> okay. he has blood on his hands. thank you congressman and director. >> up next, a noted historian compares presidential responses to the same out
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this attack was not just against ourselves or the republic of korea. this was the soviet union against the world and the moral precepts which guide human relations everywhere. it was an act of barberi barism. >> we will continue to make clear that as russia engages in efforts that are supporting the separatists that we have the capacity to increase the costs we impose on them and we will do
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so. we don't see the u.s. military role beyond what we have already been doing in working with our nato partners and some of if baltic states, giving them some reassurances that we are prepared to do whatever is required. >> we welcome jane hampton cooke, author of the new book, "american phoenix." different strokes different folks. what do you think? >> with ronald reagan, he used very strong rhetoric. you saw very mild rhetoric come out of president obama. reagan used terms like massacre several times. he called for the soviets to apologize, to make reparations. there are some things that president obama can do in the next few days than would be stronger than what he has done
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so far. >> why is he so laid back? is he a constitutional scholar drifting in a sea of thugs? is that what it is? is he naive or disconnected or a different style guy? >> it could be all of the above in many ways. it's hard to know exactly, but you have to look at the end game. what was reagan's end game in 1983 with the soviet union? he was trying to get them to negotiate a nuclear weapons treaty. what is president obama's end game with russia right now? he says it is a cease-fire in the ukraine. it is a very different, mild end game. that distinguishes the two presidents more than anything else. >> because the times are so different, when we were up
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against the soviet monolith, the world was very clear cut. it was the cold war. now things seem to muddled. is this a president for the age of the muddled? >> that's the way he's framed it is that it's muddled. i don't know how muddled it really is. you're exactly right. we are in a different place. russia is in a different place. it feels like we're creeping more toward the cold war end. there are some things, signals, that the president sends, sending pink slips to our u.s. military, that show we are retreating in our strength and in our defensive mechanisms. that sends a message to putin that he takes advantage of. >> i appreciate it. thank you very much. >> thank you. you know, i'd like to see -- first of all, i think our president should put the economic screws to russia right now. increase the sanctions until
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they really, really hurt. i think he should call for a cease-fire in eastern ukraine and in the middle east immediately before either
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thanks for watching. huckabee starts right now. >> tonight on huckabee. >> evidence indicates that the plane was shot down by a surface to air missile launched by an area with russian backed separatist. russia refused to take the steps necessary to deescalate the situation. we will impose. >> is the president's warning for russia strong enough? >> there is right and wrong. a just side and evil >> hamas continues to fire rockets and israel expand the assault in gaza. we'll move from an iron dome t


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